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Curtis's Sabbath
Subject: Re: Sabbath
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 08:41:35 -0500
From: Mahlon <bible@tk7.net>
To: Curtis Ling <dazang@yahoo.com>
References: 1Curtis Ling wrote:
Hello Sir,
Thank you for your notes regarding the sabbath. I observe that you are trying to show the sabbath for what it is, and I commend you for that. But there are some very important truths of the Bible that you never mentioned in your text. The sabbath was not created for God, but by God. It ( the sabbath was created for man. And you asked the question, " What did God sanctify the sabbath for ?" I must answer what the Bible has clearly made evident. He sancified it apart from the other days, because he rested.
You mentioned that the work was finished on that sixth day. Yes, the scripture does tell us that. And God's creation was finished. But the fact that he does not work anymore does not delete the sanctity of the sabbath day. God sanctified it for us to observe. And so it was observed by Moses. Moses relayed the law of the sabbath to Israel. We are also to keep the sabbath as commanded by God in his Ten Commandments. I don't think it gets any more complicated than that. God made it a simple thing. Rest. Seventh day. Good.
You show effort in your study. However you reach to accomplish a goal of rationalizing your Sunday. The Holy Bible never says to attend church on Sunday. It also never says to keep the first day holy. It never says the sabbath was on the first day. It never says the seventh day stopped being the sabbath. It never says Jesus Christ died to take away the sabbath. Jesus kept the sabbath. The seventh day sabbath is the only evident sabbath in the word of God. The mere act of changing it to another day, or deleting it completely is absurd.
I could go on forever, but I guess I'll spare you from getting bored of my convictions. Thank you again for your letter. I will put more study into the Bible's truths about the sabbath. Just try to keep one thing in mind. The bible has been studied by millions of eyes, billions of times, trillions of minutes. There is not one doctrine that hasn't been studied immensely. God's word is complex. Yet it is truth. Nothing in it can be altered. We cannot fathom some things God has planned for us. We cannot afford to look at it with blistered eyes that carry generational customs such as attending church on Sunday. Why? Jesus didn't command it. He kept the Lord's commandments.
It is time for me to eat dinner. Please respond. Thank you for your convictions.... I look forward to hearing from you again...
Your brother in Christ Jesus,
Curtis Ling
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Dear Curtis,
Thank you for your reply. After reading your message, I must say that years ago I also was convicted, as your are, on this premise of Sabbath keeping. I want to commend you on your conviction and your stance, and I would be the last to be judgmental toward you. I consider you a brother in Christ, and I like your attitude that you have because I detect that you also are not judgmental toward me for my stance regarding Sunday worship.I am fully aware that Christ stated that the Sabbath was made for man, and therefore it is an eternal law of God for man to set aside every seventh day for "God's time". However it is my contention that the "Sabbath day" that was given to Moses was not based on the "seventh day of the week", simply because this phrase is not found in the Bible. The problem is, and what I want to point out in Christian love, is that Sabbath keeping should not be based on the "seventh day of the week" as you people have assumed all along. I do not believe it should be based on this premise simply because the Bible never states that the Sabbath is the "seventh day of the week"! If we truly want to be honest with the Bible, Sabbath keeping is simply "ceasing" or setting aside the day following a six day "work" period, and that this "seventh day" is to be used for "God's time" to build Christ's Church. Curtis, please be honest of the fact that the New Testament example is that the early Church did indeed assemble on "the first day of the week". However it was not based on the legalism of "Jewish" Sabbath law at that time. This truth is carefully explained in my "Seventh Day booklet".
I do not want to go in a lengthy discussion with you regarding the Sabbath. I sometimes get e-mail from Saturday keepers, and save these messages as files that I use for future references. I want to send you an attached file of an e-mail conversation that I had recently, which I sincerely want you to read very carefully. If you cannot open and read this file I will then send in TEXT. I want you to know exactly what my position is on the Sabbath. Keep in mind, Curtis, the power of deception is very real, and we should never assume something that the Bible simply does not say. Also keep in mind that the enemies of Jesus Christ are in the business of deception on the true Israel of God, and they are doing their job very well. I would love to hear from you again, and may the God of Israel be with you.
http://www.tk7.net/users/bibletruths
Your brother in Christ, Mahlon Wickey
Subject: Re: Sabbath
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 11:48:32 -0500
From: Mahlon <bible@tk7.net
To: Curtis Ling <dazang@yahoo.com>
References: 1Curtis Ling wrote:
Hello Mahlon,
I am so glad you decided to write back to me. I think it is very important we continue this study together. I am very convicted that the Bible is the one truth God has given to us. I agree with your intentions, and have confidence in your faithfulness to the Lord.
However, I cannot understand why you would assume that the word does not say the sabbath is on the seventh day. If in fact God said to keep the seventh day holy, then it must be the sabbath. If, in fact, the sabbath day is not the seventh day, then I do not believe in the sabbath day. I believe in the seventh day. God sanctified the seventh day in Genesis, do we both understand that ? Whether or not it is the sabbath is an entirely new question. Yet God rested on the SEVENTH day, and made it holy. That is why I keep the seventh day holy. The sabbath may in fact be another day as you describe. However I know God intended His seventh day, His day of rest, to be a sanctified day. That is very clear in the bible. My seventh day is sanctified. That is my sabbath. If God sanctified the seventh day, why would He then make another day, the SABBATH day, on another day ?
You also made the statement that the early church gathered on the "First day of the week." Well I don't know about yours, but mine gathers any day of the week. That has nothing to do with the holy seventh day God sanctified in his honor of working six days, as stated in Genesis. There is no getting around the fact that in the beginning, God made very clear that the seventh day was a holy day. That can never change. That is why I am convicted, and very stout on the fact that the seventh day of the week, Saturday, is the sabbath day of Israel.
Thank you for your words, Mahlon! I know you have a heart for the Lord. I hope our study can continue.
Your brother in Christ, Curtis Ling
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Dear Curtis,
Thank you kindly for your response to my last email message. God bless you. I want to first of all set some things straight with you. It is obvious that you do not understand my position on explaining the Sabbath. This is all right, Curtis, because I do not want to shake your faith, and there is no sin in not understanding the holy use of the laws of the Sabbath under Moses. The sin comes when we knowingly dismiss and reject obvious truth. You see, Curtis, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the Sabbath is the "seventh day", and I also agree with you on all the points you made on the Sabbath day being holy, etc. I really do hope that you understand that this is not my contention with Saturday Sabbath keepers.We must get past the emotional aspects of this discussion, and in a logical and intelligent manner look at the biblical facts regarding the Sabbath. Once again, I will state three biblical facts that must be dealt with, if we are both to grow in the understanding of the Sabbath. (One)... There is nothing whatsoever mentioned regarding a Sabbath day in the Old Testament until it was given to Moses. Including the biblical fact that Gen. 2:2-3 only states that God "rested" on the seventh day, which he blessed and made holy (nothing is mentioned about a "Sabbath day"). (Two)... The phrase "seventh day of the week" is not found in the entirety of the bible, however the phrase "first day of the week" is found exactly eight times in the New Testament. (Three)... If we attempt to observe the seventh day Sabbath, there is no other biblical authority than the guidelines that was given through Moses. It is a biblical fact that these guidelines included not to leave homes, and not to kindle fire (among other things). Please read Exod.16:29 and 35:3. This biblical fact of course explains that the Sabbath was a "ceremonial law" that was used to show and point toward a spiritual "rest". These biblical guidelines also included the death penalty, and also animal sacrifices; as you are aware.
Curtis, what are you and I supposed to understand from these obvious biblical facts? I remind you kindly in Christian love that these biblical facts are undeniable and indisputable. As I mentioned to you in my last email, I acknowledge that Christ stated that the Sabbath was "made for man". I do not deny that there is the possibility that this biblical fact and statement made by Christ takes us back to when God "rested" on the "seventh day". However we have to understand, from Christ's point of view, what is meant by the Sabbath being "made for man". Was the Mosaic seventh day Sabbath "made for man" according to the laws of the old covenant, which Moses himself implied was only temporary? Or could it be that the Sabbath was designed and "made for man" to have a far more meaningful and spiritual use, than what the laws of the old covenant pictured?
It is obvious that the Godly intent of the Sabbath law under the old covenant was used in ceremonial fashion to "show" that God also "rested" on the "seventh day". It is also very obvious that the Godly intent of the Sabbath law was "made for man" to be used by man every seventh day to seek God. The Sabbath law and the other nine commandments are not done away! However I do not believe the ten commandments (including the Sabbath) cannot, and must not, be kept according to the laws of the old covenant; which included animal sacrifices. God forbid, that we attempt to spiritually crucify Christ again! If we are honest, this is the point that the apostle Paul wanted to make with the Galatian Church. Please review again all the information that I sent you, and hope to hear from you soon. May the Holy God of Israel guide and bless you.
http://www.tk7.net/users/bibletruths
In His Service, Mahlon Wickey
Subject: Re: Sabbath
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 21:21:42 -0500
From: Mahlon <bible@tk7.net>
To: Curtis Ling <dazang@yahoo.com>
References: 1Curtis Ling wrote:
Hello Mahlon,
Thank you for your quick reply. I agree with everything you state in your previous letter except the assumption that the phrase "seventh day" could mean every seventh day. I am open minded to all the truths the word of God offers. Let me remind you that I agree with you that the sabbath day was something different than the seventh day God rested on in his seven day creation. Also, you dismissed the fact God made the seventh day holy. That is my ONLY objection to your understanding of the sabbath day. If we both are to fully understand the truth of the word of God, let us see it for what God has written. God made the seventh day holy, did He not? What, then, is the meaning of the word holy? Set apart? Sanctified?
You assume the seventh day could mean every seven days. There is NO biblical text that describes the seventh day as being ANY arrangement of seven days. Why do you think I have not studied the word for its WHOLE truth ? I want to know the truth as much as you do. But there is no getting around the fact of the matter. God sanctified the seventh day. Let me say that again. GOD SANCTIFIED THE SEVENTH DAY. Maybe you didn't hear me. GOD SANCTIFIED THE SEVENTH DAY. Does that mean we are to assume the seventh day means any seven day arrangement? Maybe if we dismissed the FACT God arranged the week with SEVEN days AND throughout the Bible God uses the number seven as if it were significant to a fault. The seventh day cannot be another day but the day it was placed when God sanctified it. That was the very FIRST seventh day. Every seventh day from there forward must be on Saturday. There is no getting around that fact either. So either way you look at it. Sabbath or just every seventh day. Saturday must ALWAYS be the seventh day AND the SABBATH.
Another thing I think is neat is that Paul was in the business of converting was he not ?? Why then does he not tell the jews that the seventh day sabbath does not exist anymore?? He definitely would have. There is no question about that. And he never did.
You mock the very meaning of the word by molding it to form your own pursuits. Don't let the word of God become what you want it to be. It is like a two edged sword. Any way you come at it, it pierces without question.
-Curtis Ling
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Hi again Curtis,
You have interpreted the "seventh day" that God "rested" on as common day of the week (according to our calendar), which you have assumed was on a Saturday. The incredible irony of this is that this deception was brought about by a "Jewish" calendar in 358 AD. You will never be able to prove biblically by the laws given to Moses that the Sabbath was the seventh day of the week. It was a system and divine pattern of numbering the days. You people also fail to realize that the "Jews" of Christ's day had corrupted the true intent of the Sabbath law under the old covenant. As a matter of fact, Christ himself stated that the "Jews" of Christ's day were a "generation of vipers", and these people were in charge of temple service!How many times do I have to tell you that I agree with you that the "seventh day" of creation was made holy?! You obviously are not reading what I wrote (or don't want to). I repeatedly stated that I believe this was the "Rest" of God that was sanctified and made holy. What you people have done is reduced God's holy "Rest" to a common physical day of the week, which you believe happens to be Saturday. What kind of mockery do you call this? And you had the nerve to accuse me of making mockery!
You people have the "vail of Moses" over your hearts (2 Cor. 3:13-15), and this is why you people never attempt to explain what is known as "God's Rest". I suppose you are going to tell me that believers can enter into God's "Rest" while at the same time attempting to keep the Mosaic Sabbath law that pointed toward this "Rest". I need not remind you that the Israelites were keeping the Sabbath under Joshua, however they did not enter into God's "Rest" because of unbelief; therefore invoking the wrath of God, as it explains in the book of Heb. The carnal physical minded Israelites failed to see the purpose of the Sabbath. They not only "rested" on the Sabbath, but worshipped the Sabbath itself as you people do; therefore making an idol out of the day.
I know you are aware that the bible speaks of God's holy "Rest". If you do not believe in God's "Rest" that was made on the seventh day of creation, you will invoke God's wrath upon you; and I don't care how earnestly and sincere you are in keeping the Saturday Sabbath. Curtis, there was a time that I also, as you do, defended what I thought was God's holy Sabbath. I not only defended it, but judged others for not keeping Saturday! However as time went on, and with carefull Bible study, I began to see another side of the Sabbath story. There is a much deeper and bigger picture to the Sabbath than just a certain day of the week. If you are honest with yourself you will have to agree. Until next time, and may God bless you.
In His Service, Mahlon
Subject: Re: Sabbath
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 11:31:11 -0500
From: Mahlon <bible@tk7.net>
To: Curtis Ling <dazang@yahoo.com>
References: 1Curtis Ling wrote:
Hello Mahlon,
Thank you for your reply. I suppose you're getting a little on the edge of your seat. I can't blame you for your impatience. So am I. First of all, I can't help but laugh at your suggestion that I make and idol out of the sabbath day. That is more absurd than your connotations of my blindness. First of all, if you care to look at your first paragraph, you will notice none of it is biblically based. The biblical text you used has nothing to do with the sabbath. So the Jews were vipers. That does not go to say they misinterperated the sabbath day.
I also want you to understand that I condemn nobody. I have more Christian friends who don't observe the sabbath that you can shake a stick at. My church does not condemn anybody who does not observe sabbath. We believe it is NOT a matter of salvation. We merely observe it as obedience. It is of no more importance to us. We observe it because Moses did. And because we believe God created it for a reason. Not because it is a matter of salvation. The bible says nothing about that. I simply want you to know we observe the sabbath day because God made a holy day in the beggining.
I personally object to your connotations that I am not being honest with myself, and that I am blinding my view to the bible. How unfair can you be? You use invisible proof as basis of your faith. Correct? As I recall you use the absence of the phrase "seventh day sabbath" as your boiling point of your doctrine. That is wrong. Well we both know there was a seventh day "rest." And we both know the fourth commandment, right? Let's look at it with OPEN EYES.
Exodus 20:8
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
I take that for what it says. It says God rested on the seventh day. It also calls the seventh day the sabbath day. That would mean they are the same day. The sabbath day is the seventh day. It says that. Why do you lie about it not being the seventh day? The fourth commandment states that plainly. Why then do you say the sabbath day is not on the seventh day? All your scheming, all your invisible texts, and personal understanding cannot erase the last part of that commandment. It states God rested on the seventh day, therefore he blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. You can sequence to your hearts content. But the week only has seven days. And the seventh on our calendar would be Saturday. Too bad so sad. Looks like I'll be resting on Saturday. No, I am not failing to be honest with myself. I am simply being obedient to God as a show for my love. God's mercy through Christ could never erase my obedience to Him. Never. I fully understand Christ's bare on my life. He saved me from my own wants and desires. I am free because of Him. That brings me to love him, and through love comes obedience. I want to obey God's law for what it is. I know you do as well. Whether we think each other is blind, we are very much alike. You see the seventh day as being the seventh day after six days of work. Do you rest after six days of work? I work Sunday through Friday, and rest Saturday. That is my sabbath. That is the day I see in the fourth commandment. The seventh day.
Well I will stop rambling so I can hear your thoughts. Please no stereotypes of Seventh Day keepers please, I tend not to fit into any of them anyway.....
Also, please tell me a little about yourself. I am interested in knowing a little about you. I am from Salem, OR and I am 19 years old. I went to my church's boarding high school in Owosso, MI. That is where I learned most of my church's doctrine. You would be surprised to know that they are very simple. No crazy beliefs. No hidden agenda. We look in the word for everything. And I must tell you I don't agree with every single one. Back to myself... I have a love for music. I took voice lessons in high school, and I love to sing for the Lord. I am in the Praise team at church. I am one year from getting an Associates Degree in Microelectronics Engineering.
Thank you Mahlon,
Your brother in Christ, -Curtis Ling
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Hi again Curtis,
This discussion is obviously getting nowhere, however I will attempt to explain the "seventh day" from another angle. You see, Curtis, Sunday keeping is also the "seventh day" of a weekly cycle. Yes, so is Saturday, and theoretically any day of the week could serve as the "seventh day" following the sixth day of any given weekly cycle. Is this not true? This is all I am saying, and it is incredible that you refuse to understand this very simple premise. If we are honest, according to the fourth commandment, the Sabbath is also based on this simple premise of numbering the days. However the reason the "seventh day" is stressed and was made holy (from God's point of view) is because it pointed toward (by ceremonial law) the "Rest" of God that was blessed and sanctified on the seventh day of creation. The Sabbath under Moses was not the holy, blessed "Rest" of God. The Sabbath only represented by ceremonial law what was blessed and made holy on the seventh day of creation. Why can't you understand this very simple concept that I have been trying to explain to you? This is exactly what Exod. 20:11 is saying. Keep in mind, the Sabbath law also included the six "work" days, which was simply a divine pattern that represented God also "working" six days and then "resting" the following day (seventh). Read this scripture again for the first time with this concept in mind, and simply believe what it states; nothing more, nothing less. Come on, Curtis, I cannot believe you are that stupid not to see what Exod. 20:8-11 is saying.I am pleasantly surprised that you are only 19 years of age. The way you presented yourself I was under the impression you were a "bible believing veteran" for many years. God be praised that there are a few teenagers that are honestly convicted by the scriptures. We do not often see this type of sincerity among young people in a evil world that has forgotten God and the bible. God bless you, Curtis, and keep up your bible study and hopefully some day you will see the big picture, and why the Sabbath was given. What I have written on the Sabbath is what I personally believe. I also believe the subject of the Sabbath cannot be understood and explained fully by sinful flesh. I freely confess that I personally do not know as I ought to know. We all need to prayerfully seek to be guided by our Heavenly Father in correct doctrine and theology.
I have always, as far back as I can remember, had a profound interest in the bible; and in the early 70"s I joined the World Wide Church of God. I departed from this Church in 1975, but did not depart from the bible. I am 55 years young, and attend a small fellowship group here at Ft. Wayne IN. I bought a computer few years age, and have since written twelve forty page booklets and nine small pamphlets, plus other written material from e-mail discussions; and have all this material saved as files in Msworks. This discussion that you and I are presently ingaged in is also being saved as a document, and will be used in future reference (I hope you don't mind). Let me know if you would object to this. I designed my own web page, and posted it on the internet the first of this year. Now you know the rest of the story. It would be better for us not to argue about the Sabbath. Until next time, and may God bless you.
http://www.tk7.net/users/bibletruths
Sincerely, your brother in the faith, Mahlon
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