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"Speaking in tongues"
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt
To: m_wickey@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:00:37 -0800
Subject: baptism [M. Paulson]Dear Mahlon,
I read your stuff and I have some questions. " That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you,'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit," John 3:6-9.How is being born again like the wind in water baptism? What is the baptism of Jesus of the Holy Spirit and fire at Matt 3:11? And is the baptism of Eph 4:5 "one" baptism? Why did Jesus not water baptize, John 4:2? I wonder if you have ever been asked these questions.
In Him, Matt CARM
From: Mahlon W
To: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: baptism [M. Paulson]Matt,
To be "born of the spirit" is not water baptism, that is, if I understand your question. Water baptism only "washes" away the inherited Adamic sin that we all were born with. Therefore this "washing" done in the name of Christ enables God to look on a believer as "cleansed", and then a believer can be "born of the spirit". I believe baptism of the "Holy Spirit and with fire" was manifested on the day of Pentecost when cloven "tongues of fire" sat on each of the disciples (Acts 2:3-4). Our God is a "consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:29), and this fire was manifested in a physical way on the apostles. But it only appeared as "fire", therefore was not the fire of God in a real sense. Notice the wording: "cloven tongues like as of fire". "Cloven" could mean as multiple tongues, or as more that one language; which proved to be true for the apostles.Acts 2:3-4 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (KJV)
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. (KJV)When a believe is baptized, a foretaste of God's Spirit and also the "fire" is promised. However this "fire of God" is not manifested to a believer, simply because no one in the flesh is able to bear it. However the gift of the Holy Spirit is given for believers as they is able to receive it, and when it will edify; such as speaking in other languages. God is the author of all languages and when the apostles were given the gift of the Holy Spirit they were able to speak in other languages, simply because God was in them doing the "speaking". This same gift is available today, but only as it is needed. The baptism of fire is also given, but it simply is not manifested in a physical sense as it was on the day of Pentecost. I believe the "fire of God" enables saints to be resurrected at the last trumpet, and only then will it be manifested in a real sense showing the "glory" of God. The Holy festival of "weeks" under the old covenant pictured and pointed toward the event of Pentecost, which was fulfilled in the book of Acts; and therefore will never be repeated. A lot depends on the humility and spiritual maturity of baptized believers for them to exercise the gifts of God, and it is God that determines when and if the gifts are to be used. Christ was not sent to baptize, for the same reason the Apostle Paul was not sent to baptize (John 4:1-2 and 1 Corinthians 1:17). They were sent to preach the gospel, and therefore other disciples did the actual baptizing.
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) (KJV)
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (KJV)You mentioned the "one" baptism in Eph 4:5. The Bible also talks about baptisms (plural) in Hebrews 6:2.
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (KJV)
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (KJV)John's baptism was done before Christ shed His blood, therefore could not be done in the "name of Jesus Christ". Some believers in the book of Acts were therefore "rebaptised" in the name of Christ to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. They experienced two baptisms; which can be explained as baptisms (plural). I address this in my booklet. You might want to read it again. I hope this has helped. God bless.
http://bibletruths.150m.com
In His Service, Mahlon
----- Original Message -----
From: ross
To: bible@tk7.net
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 1:39 AM
Subject: Curious
Dear Sir, I have enjoyed reading several of your booklets/pamplets and find them enlightening and challenging. I am curious about your opinion on the issue of speaking in tongues and the charasmatic movement. I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Ross
From: Mahlon
To: ross
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Curious
Hi Ross,
I honestly believe the "tongues" movement in this country was founded and based on a serious misunderstanding on what happened in the book of Acts and what Paul wrote in the letters to Corinthians. First of all, "tongues" is used in scripture to simply mean languages, plain and simple. That time in history when the book of Acts was written many Israelites from other lands spoke in different languages. These people were known as "Gentiles" and they gathered at Jerusalem during certain festivals that the Jews observed, such as Pentecost. These people generally were made up of the northern tribes of Israel that were "put away" in punishment and scattered in other lands and divorced from God. Pentecost was an event that happened at that time and will never be repeated. God had made peace with His people through the sacrifice of Christ, and the apostles had to speak the words of salvation to Israelites from many lands. They had to speak in the native language of the lost Israelites. The miracle was in the hearing as well as in the speaking. This information is all found in the first several chapters in Acts, as you know. When believers spoke in "tongues" they generally had hands laid on them by the apostles. In some cases it came as a gift of God by baptism and the laying on of hands, and then it was used simply because it was much needed at that time in history. God is the author of all languages, and it is Him that imparts the gift of certain languages as He sees fit for His own purpose and glory. The Corinthian Church was misusing the gift of tongues and Paul was simply correcting them. This Church had many problems and in the case of tongues Paul stated they better not use this gift if there was no interpreter. As Paul explained, he would rather speak five words with his understanding that ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. The key word is "unknown", or simply a language that is not understood.1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. (KJV)
The gift of tongues is only to be used if it is needed. If this gift is misused in any way it serves no purpose and confusion will follow, and God is not the author of confusion. Tongues are not needed in this day and age, simply because the language in this country is predominately English. Some people in our modern day Churches claim they speak in the tongues of angels which is why they claim it is "unknown". Angels do have "tongues" as Paul explained.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (KJV)
However fallen angels also have tongues, and they are very deceptive. It is very possible that emotional minded sincere Christian people of today do become involved with the tongues of these deceptive and familiar spirits. The Bible warns against these "familiar" fallen angels and spirits.
Deuteronomy 18:11-12 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. (KJV)However I am not in a position of "knowing it all", and I certainly do not want to pretend knowing the subject of "tongues" in its fullness. Neither do I want to judge sincere people in our modern Churches for "speaking in tongues". I have stated to you what I personally believe on this subject as I understand the scriptures. May God bless you, and please do stay in touch. As you know, I offer hard copies of all me written material if you send me your mailing address.
http://users.tk7.net/bibletruths
In His Service, Mahlon
----- Original Message -----
From: Hal
To: Mahlon Wickey
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:37 PM
Subject: Baptismhal wrote:
Greetings! As a charismatic, I was disappointed that your understanding about tongues is incomplete. I have spoken in tongues (not the gift of tongues) for twenty three years. I have seen people healed and delivered from evils spirits when all I did was pray in tongues. I believe the source of truth is the Holy Spirit, the Author of the Bible, not theologians, not men. Without the Revealer of truth, even the Scriptures are subject to so much error and disagreement. My experience has convinced me that we cannot know the whole truth by studying the Bible without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It amazes me that there are those who speak with great authority about tongues who have never had the experience and seen its results.. Paul said, he who speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself. There is just as much evidence to believe that Mark 16:15-20 was omitted as there is that it was added. But if it were added, it must have been based on the experience of those who added it Your response? God loves you, Hal
Hello Hal,
Thank you for the message. I did not cover the subject of "tongues" in my booklet. The event in the book of Acts on the day of Pentecost is where "tongues" was first manifested by the apostles. This I believe was the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as Christ explained previously that the promise of the Father would come (Acts 1:4). Many Israelites that came from other nations were assembled in Jerusalem at that time, and of course they spoke in different languages. The miracle was that they heard the apostles speak in their native languages they were born in (Acts 2:8). That is what is stated. The words of salvation had to be spoken to these Israelites that were put away in punishment and divorced from God, and were scattered in all the nations. God had now reconciled himself through the sacrifice Christ with these lost sheep that were scattered in all the nations. The miracle was in hearing the words of salvation as well as in the speaking. The "speaking in tongues" that many sincere people of today believe in, is not the type of "tongues" that the apostles spoke on the day of Pentecost.Your quote... "I have spoken in tongues (not the gift of tongues) for twenty three years". Be careful, Hal, you made a very interesting confession. If "tongues" is not a gift from God then what is it, and more important, where does it come from? The gift of tongues given by God is to be used effectively when it is needed. I am not charismatic as you are, therefore I must admit, I do not "speak in tongues" in the same manner as you "speak in tongues", and I never have, nor do I desire to. But of course we both speak in the "tongue" known as the English language. Do you get my point? I will not judge you. However I have to respectfully disagree with you in that this type of "tongues" is not found in the Bible, as I understand the scriptures. "Tongues" simply means languages, plain and simple, and if languages are spoken that cannot be understood then there should be an interpreter at hand; as Paul instructed (1 Corinthians 14:5). The gift of speaking in other languages was much needed in New Testament times.
In this modern day Christian environment the English language is widely used, and the vast majority of people that hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ understand the English language. Therefore I believe the gift of tongues, as used in the early Church, is not needed in this day and age. Maybe in some rare instances it is needed, such as in a foreign country. If "tongues" are used outside of the purpose for which it was biblically intended for, then I must conclude it is not from God. Hal, I must caution you in Christian love, Satan and evil spirits are masters of deception and duplication. I know you will disagree with my assessment, but that is fine. I will not argue with you. I have stated what I personally believe as I understand the scriptures. I have a link... "tongues" in my web page under "Email Discussions"; if you have not read it yet. God bless you, Hal, and hope to hear from you again.
http://bibletruths.150m.com
In His Service, MahlonQuestions or comments?... Email: wickey777@verizon.net